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IMPORTANT: Survey - should admins play with players in alpha test?

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Recently some players accused us in being unfair because we play the game alongside testers in the same server. I thought it was clear that alpha-test is not a real game and you should have different expectations, there was some drama about this. Since I am sure this question will be rised again I decided to do a survey:

Do you think it is ok for admins to play with testers together and interact with them on the TEST server or should we play separately on a separate server?

Before answering, please read carefully and consider the following important arguments:

  1. The game is currently at alpha-test stage and people who accepted the invitation must understand this experience is far from the real game. People who play this game are not considered players, they are considered testers and must take everything with a grin of salt.
  2. Admins need to get a proper feeling of the real game to make the right impression and balance it properly. It is important to get the idea of the game as a whole - with all the social interaction, politics, and drama, surrounding it. Artifically creating two armies or kingdoms and fighting each other does not give the full impression.
  3. Although admins tend to play fair, we do not spawn units/items/resources out of nowhere, we do not use large amounts of Enkord Cash, still we know the game much better than players and this could be serious advantage in certain cases.
  4. On the other hand people receive Enkord Cash for their donations and they spend it to gain advantage in this game. If the admin is playing against them and such player don't trust admin, they he or she might get an impression they are wasting money on fighting with cheater. This is especially the case if you treat the donation not as helping this project to grow, but as purchasing specific products for your money (although officially we insist them as donation which do not guarantee anything, because the game is too rough and buggy to promise solid experience).
  5. We are a small team and cannot afford in-house testers. I pay my team to work regular labor hours, but they play this game with other testers here in the same sever at their own leisure. Alternative to that would be running closed developer-only server in parallel and spending more time on doing testing ourselves, instead of playing the same server together with everyone. This will result in less time spent on actual game development and slower updates. We will also spend less time talking to people in the game and having less direct feedback because of this.

The arguments might look like I am trying to convince you to take one side, but this is actually a call for opinions and although the alternatives are really not that good, if majority of people consider admins playing with testers a bad thing, I will have to figure out a solution. Please let me know your thoughts.

EDIT: It's a survey, so in the first place answer in short - either YES or NO, and then go into details. Posts without clear answer will be deleted for the sake of keeping the thread straight to the point.

Edited 32 minutes later by .
9 years ago
9 years ago

Yes - it's ok for admins to play on same server as testers

In my opinion you could play on server with other testers but they should be far away from other players in same location which means they can interact with each others (admins/gms) 

Edited 16 minutes later by . Reason: Making it clear.
9 years ago
9 years ago
Reply to

Yes I think the devs should play

In my opinion you could play on server with other testers only if you are a good distance away from other players so you dont stand in anyones way.

You yourself could also wait for the game to be put on full release if you don't want to play with the developers.  I don't have a problem with the devs playing along with us.  In alpha 1 there was only a handful of testers so it was important for us to play along with the devs, who as Bers pointed out, knew the game better than us, which will be the case with all of us when the game is released to the public and a host of new players arrive.  So if the majority of players don't have a problem playing with the devs then the ball is back in your court - you either play along side them or wait till the game goes live and they are no longer plalying.

Edited 2 minutes later by .
9 years ago
9 years ago

IceBolt, this is a yes or no survey, please edit your answer to be clear, or it will be removed.

9 years ago
9 years ago

Yes.

I have not encountered any in game play so I cannot answer based on personal experience but based on the arguments presented my opinion is that they should be able to play.

9 years ago
9 years ago

Yes, absolutely.  

It is extremely helpful being able to ask questions of those that developed it.  We are, after all, in the testing phase.  I love the interaction with the developers.  That is a very rare treat, in my opinion.

9 years ago
9 years ago

If you are gm and you want to test stuff around as a "player" its simple: dont tell others that you are GM. Otherwise i dont see how it is fair to the rest that gm interfer into someone's else war.

You are favouring a player, so then the player can go around and say "look, gm is my friend, i can do things and have things that you can't, bla bla". How are you going to prove that the person is lieing?

Hello, ladies, its not about questions in the chat, its about facing actual force of a GM in your own or someone's else town

Edited 1 minute later by .
9 years ago
9 years ago
Reply to

AnneeR my post was referring to this.

Recently some players accused us in being unfair because we play the game alongside testers in the same server.

Edited 1 minute later by .
9 years ago
9 years ago

Ok, I have clarified, that it is also involves in-game INTERACTION, not just chat.

9 years ago
9 years ago

If the developers experience the game play from my perspective, they will be better able to develop it in the way they intend. It is no good playing on a separate server, not being able to experience true player interaction.

I think you should take down the flags for a while though. True player interaction does include a fight or two. Anyway, they can be quite fun.

9 years ago
9 years ago
Reply to

If the developers experience the game play from my perspective, they will be better able to develop it in the way they intend. It is no good playing on a separate server, not being able to experience true player interaction.

I think you should take down the flags for a while though. True player interaction does include a fight or two. Anyway, they can be quite fun.

I had a big war on alpha 2 so I have experienced it in all the detail :) that's why I decided to pass on alpha 3 to focus on the development this time around. On the other hand Guro is playing alpha 3 without flags and experiencing fights very well.

Edited 19 seconds later by .
9 years ago
9 years ago

Yes, they should !

To be clear, I don't have an admin near my dwelling (or if I have, I don't know who it is :p).

But, I'm perfectly aware that I signed up for a test. It's not even a Beta test, it's still an Alpha test ! Those are made for the developers to make adjustments in the game. If we take pleasure and fun in testing, that's a plus, but that's not the objective for tests ;).

I have played some betas and been participating in other game communities. I believe we should be grateful that the admins take the time to really play the game: I can tell you, it's not the case for every game ! And what is going to make the gameplay better if not the developers ? First by listening to the tester's arguments and secondly by testing themself first hand !

If one doesn't want to interact with the developers while testing the game, one should maybe wait for the finished game to come out ;).

And by saying that, I don't mean to be rude to anyone who has or might complain about it. I'm just saying that we, future addictive players :p, should be glad to see how much the admins are involved in their game. Personaly, I find it encouraging to be able to talk directly to some of them, be it on the shoutbox IG or in the forum. When there's dialog, there's hope that our requests/questions/remarks, will be taken under consideration.

Hope I've been clear, sorry if my grammar is not what it should be ;).

Edited 3 minutes later by .
9 years ago
9 years ago
Reply to

You are favouring a player, so then the player can go around and say "look, gm is my friend, i can do things and have things that you can't, bla bla". How are you going to prove that the person is lieing?

Hello, ladies, its not about questions in the chat, its about facing actual force of a GM in your own or someone's else town

Do you really believe that the devs are going around tweeking people's games based on favoritism? I rather doubt this to be true. If somebody were to claim it, (I have seen nobody claim this) why would I even believe it? If a dev were to tweek, he or she could do it with or without neighbors, with or without their own hero, or playing on one server or another. Why would the server they are playing on make any difference?

9 years ago
9 years ago

Yes, I think it is fine for admin to play with the rest of us. 

I agree with the reasons you have set out, in particular, they (you) cannot get a real feel for participating if you are on a separate server.

Also, many of us benefit from having you and Guro present to participate in the chat for lots of small questions and general information.

9 years ago
9 years ago

Both admins and developers must play the game together with the other players at alpha stage - thus they will better understand players' issues and assess their priority. When real game starts then they must play too, but maybe in a region, separate from that of other players so as not to cause discontent. I myself have no problem to play together with them even if they have some advantages.

Edited 7 minutes later by .
9 years ago
9 years ago

Yes,  the admins and developers should play with the testers on the same server. So they get  important feedback and feeling from the testers in realtime and can react faster.

9 years ago
9 years ago
Reply to

Ok, I have clarified, that it is also involves in-game INTERACTION, not just chat.

Still yes.  The developers need to experience the game alongside the other gamers.  The bugs need to be found and worked out, and only the developers know where those bugs may be.  That means they  must play the game like normal, in my opinion.

9 years ago
9 years ago

I need to clarify, that udivegirl played with one of the developers in alpha having intense war.

9 years ago
9 years ago

YES

While I am not a techie my job is to test software and I am a software helpdesk co-ordinator, so I am used to being stuck in the middle between the developers and our clients!

9 years ago
9 years ago

Yes, the admins should play on the same server as testers.

9 years ago
9 years ago
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