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Creature Habitats Kill Too Much

1 2
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Reply to berserker :




I feel that monster dens have failed.  They have not acheived bers desire for more PVP. 


You misunderstood my desire then. The problem was people are getting too soft, they join alliance and noone attacks them so they skip defenses entirely which shifts the game too much to the "farm game" side which I don't like. So the creature habitats make you pay more attention to fighting and defense like it was in the early days of TT2 when alliances still been fighting with each other. Comparing to those days and those wars, creature habitats and their attacks are peanuts.


I played during those days of 'big wars'. It was fun, untill nukes and
stealth were introduced. Player base found a way to give an answer to
that way of "unfair, big spender" warfare. Quit or close ranks. That's what happened. They didn't go soft. They found an answer to that imbalancement of power that only big spenders could buy and rule the game. They said NO to that way to play this game.

Now, Berserker, you are trying to do the same by creature habitats and If one doesn't kiill hell pitts when they spawn, one gets over 20 dragons attacking...that's not peanuts. Especially with no alliance way to notice, clock or counter them. Only the best trained vets will know how to counter that.

So, either be happy with the community you have and listen to them, argument with them, admit their point of view, or lose a big part of  them and gamble on what you gain by cell phone to sustain this game better.

It's your game, but players aren't just guinea pigs...they draw conclusions from the way this game is developing


1 month ago

1 month ago

I have to agree with every word Frodo said.  I have been here continuously since early A3, and I have to say that very few people here like the nuke/stealth play you TRIED to introduce.  It has been tried, and it is not liked.  I know you want a PVP war game but that is NOT what your player base wants.  So you can keep your game and fewer and fewer players will play, OR you can drop the nastier side of PVP and the monster attacks and grow a game that your player base actually wants to play!

We want the story line to progress, we want the new locations and the puzzles.  The average player here is older than the usual PVP game players, it is time to recognise your player base and what WE want IF you want this game to succeed and grow.  Or make the game hard core PVP and watch us all go elsewhere.  It is your game - you decide.


1 month ago

1 month ago

I would like to add that in the old days of alliance wars we were all on the same continent - so skilled players could play WAR and DEFENCE so wars were possible.  Then came the 30 day rule which made it a lot harder, then multiple continents all open at the same time was the kiss of death to alliance wars; as real alliance WARS and DEFENCE are equally a shambles when most alliance members CANNOT get to the targets be it for attack or defence.  So no point in even trying.  This has occurred as a result of how the game has developed, to get a PVP game again you would have to radically change your development.  If you choose that you will loose most of your players and you will have to start from scratch to get a new player base.


1 month ago

1 month ago

I would like to add on my perspective as a new player myself, since I only started playing very freshly about a month or two ago or so. I joined TT2 after seeing descriptions of it being a game where I could take my own pace, and achieve the path to my own desired victory through whatever route I want: war, questline completion, expansion, etc.

With that in mind, I was hoping to avoid fighting and PvP as much as possible, treating my army as a force to be used against storyline enemies, much like in the original TT and TT gold. I wanted to continue pushing through quests with puzzles, again, like in the original TT and TT gold. Having the different defense bonuses have helped significantly, as well as having a supportive alliance to give tips and pointers, as well as provide support and defense against strong aggressors who might see a new player as an easy target. For that, I am very much appreciative that these boons exist so that I may focus on the story progression without having to worry too much about constantly having downtime with my town, army, and hero to be resurrected.

The sole existence of Creature Habitats, or CH, changes that narrative entirely for me. Even with my defense bonus due to collectivism and having a good focus on wall and tower in my towns, every time the CH sends monsters to attack, my army will get wiped out; not only that, but the stronger CH against early level players (for me, Wizen Wood and the horrid Deadly Canyon) will get stronger without having something to keep the CH strength and development in check. Since alliances cannot see CH, nor can they see CH attacks incoming until after the damage occurred, alliances can only help so much by sending resources to the player after the fact. With all that in mind, it becomes annoying to try advancement of storyline if my hero and army are not even alive to travel to the places of interest for the story.

Once again, I joined this game from the understanding and advertising that it was friendly towards all types of players: ones who would like to take their own pace, those who would like to go all out in war, those who want to work on resource control and expansion, those who want to focus on storyline, etc etc. CH really destroys that image for me.


1 month ago

1 month ago

Reply to Dordiana :


I would like to add that in the old days of alliance wars we were all on the same continent - so skilled players could play WAR and DEFENCE so wars were possible.  Then came the 30 day rule which made it a lot harder, then multiple continents all open at the same time was the kiss of death to alliance wars; as real alliance WARS and DEFENCE are equally a shambles when most alliance members CANNOT get to the targets be it for attack or defence.  So no point in even trying.  This has occurred as a result of how the game has developed, to get a PVP game again you would have to radically change your development.  If you choose that you will loose most of your players and you will have to start from scratch to get a new player base.


Exactly this Berserker:.Make distances between starting heroes smaller, make new continents appear at slower rate, That will make players fight over space, If you want more PVP, you get it this way. Not by making CH. That only feeds solitary play.


1 month ago

1 month ago

Reply to Morag :


I dislike the Creature Habitats very much. It is not that I mind losing army, or having to build defences in town. It takes out the one thing I loved most of this game: the freedom to choose how you want to play. The beauty of this game is, that there is not just one good way, and one bad way to play. There are so many ways you can play.

But now, it feels like I am forced to focus on those habitats... and it does not bring any kind of satisfaction. It adds nothing to the group dynamics, the interaction between players. We are playing solo, running up and down those Habitats to plunder or destroy. Or we spend days and days building houses and towers... houses and towers... houses and towers.

If you want more interaction this is definitly not the way to achieve that goal.

I have almost finished the Wonder of the World, get that victory done, and will take a break; burning candles and say a lot of prayers that the dev's will remove those Habitats.


Totally agree.

I have seen several experienced players leave the game for the above reasons and that should be a wake up call. If they have left it, after several years playing, it is because something is wrong.

I also fully agree with the comments made here. Alliances have lost their original purpose, to be a team and help each other. With the CH there is no longer that option. You are forced to play solo.

New players don't have many options to fully experience the game. All your time and effort goes into not getting attacked and finding your army destroyed by these creatures and that's not a progress in the game.


1 month ago
Edited by kemagobias 1 month ago.

1 month ago

Reply to Haku :



With that in mind, I was hoping to avoid fighting and PvP as much as possible, treating my army as a force to be used against storyline enemies, much like in the original TT and TT gold. I wanted to continue pushing through quests with puzzles, again, like in the original TT and TT gold. Having the different defense bonuses have helped significantly, as well as having a supportive alliance to give tips and pointers, as well as provide support and defense against strong aggressors who might see a new player as an easy target. For that, I am very much appreciative that these boons exist so that I may focus on the story progression without having to worry too much about constantly having downtime with my town, army, and hero to be resurrected.

The sole existence of Creature Habitats, or CH, changes that narrative entirely for me. Even with my defense bonus due to collectivism and having a good focus on wall and tower in my towns, every time the CH sends monsters to attack, my army will get wiped out; not only that, but the stronger CH against early level players (for me, Wizen Wood and the horrid Deadly Canyon) will get stronger without having something to keep the CH strength and development in check. Since alliances cannot see CH, nor can they see CH attacks incoming until after the damage occurred, alliances can only help so much by sending resources to the player after the fact. With all that in mind, it becomes annoying to try advancement of storyline if my hero and army are not even alive to travel to the places of interest for the story.

.


I've talked with some players and, this is essentially, what many of them think about


1 month ago

1 month ago

People complain that some monsters attack them, killing units and plundering resources, I'm really confused: how can someone complain about that, players years ago used to destroy buildings, or even towns, or even all towns of a player, and no, an alert sent to the rest of the alliance about that changed nothing, so it was way worst, no debate possible about that, it's just a very obvious fact. I feel that this thread is just that, when players were attacked by other players, sometime they insulted them on the common chat or in pm, here the attacker in the end is berserker himself so people complain to him, and since he is the boss, no one wants to go as far as insulting him even though it seems logical that some people want to. Also, what's even more surreal is that some people in this thread complain about being attacked by a few monsters while they find it perfectly normal to destroy towns of other players, it's "it's perfectly normal for me to kick everyone but if anyone poke me I'll sue them because it's scandalous !".


1 month ago

1 month ago

Amazing amount of damage to my army (all killed) by  an Eerie Swamp less than 4 days old. 

<Report #25762619>


1 month ago

1 month ago

Of course there must be SOME habitats, for they can be very useful as a part of the tutorial and as a development waymark. For that purpose they should grow in strength exactly as fast as it is considered ‘normal’ for an okay human player (serve as a realistic model of an aggressive neighbour concentrated just on you). And for that purpose they should begin, with a lot of advisors’ explanation, on day 1 or around that, not when the player has to realize out of the blue they’ve hopelessly fallen behind already, and the only option is to restart and wander in the fog for another 2 weeks only to face the same unfortunate result… <s>the sooner they admit they’ll just never be able to keep up with the growth speed really intended for this game, and quit, the less it hurts but oh who cares for the weaklings’ hurt feelings…</s>

Yeah people often won’t want to play the game in a balanced way, but they’ll ‘buy’ the things they like more with the things they enjoy less… only until the price is unjustifiedly enormous.


1 month ago

1 month ago

I find the CH somewhat ambiguous: On the one hand they could be good but aren't quite there yet, on the other hand I do not understand the level of complaints because they do relatively little and multiple things can be done to avoid most if not all harm.

There are the obvious things, towers (enough towers make them retreat) and putting army in shelter when not online. Then there are the options to plunder them to keep them from developing, and to destroy them. Neither of these options are very time consuming, and I wonder if the players who complain about the CH taking up all their game time have been poorly educated by their fellow alliance members? Both plunder and destructive attacks can be done without hero, not ideal, but that way hero can venture and do other things at the same time. If the hero meets monsters, he can fight a lot on his own or needs relatively few units accompanying him, so the rest of the army can do the attack or plunder on the CH. I've destroyed all of mine with catapults only, and it is perfectly doable with just a couple of trips.

I do agree though that the alert should come to the alliance chat so members can at least move units out when the attacked player is not online. While not strictly necessary, it would increase the interactive part of the game and dampen the blow to players who are still learning the game.

In my opinion, the habitats should rather be tweaked than abolished. At the moment they are neither fish nor fowl.

It makes no sense that the entire alliance can see and attack them, as then you just need a couple of stronger players to take them down for everybody. But maybe it could be possible that a player could sort of invite a couple of other players with the same strength/stage of development as them to do a joint attack?

Maybe items could be put on the CH to decrease their development? Or maybe certain units could go on their own and do something to them, like let's say you send 10 witchdoctors to do some sort of spell and the habitat goes to sleep for a few days, later on priests could do something similar. Not to keep them at bay entirely, but to give players some more options and the feeling that something can be done during shorter playtimes, while building up defence and army to properly deal with the places when the player has more time available.


1 month ago

1 month ago

Reply to Morag :




Don't agree. The big difference between the habitats and those old days of war, is that the habitats are strictly solo playing. It does not stimulate any kind of interaction. It does not make players paying more attention to fighting and defense... they just leave the game.

And getting attacked with a big mob of dragons and not being able to reinforce, because the player is not online, is not peanuts. It is just frustrating and demotivating.


If you participate in PvP the monsters don't attack you, so it's either one or another.


1 month ago
Edited by berserker 1 month ago.

1 month ago

Reply to MR JONES :



I do agree though that the alert should come to the alliance chat so members can at least move units out when the attacked player is not online. While not strictly necessary, it would increase the interactive part of the game and dampen the blow to players who are still learning the game.


That would just make most of the players skip on their own defenses if there is one or two strong alliance players that can always reinforce them when attack is coming, effectively nullifying the update almost entirely.


1 month ago

1 month ago

Reply to Anonymous :


Also, what's even more surreal is that some people in this thread complain about being attacked by a few monsters while they find it perfectly normal to destroy towns of other players, it's "it's perfectly normal for me to kick everyone but if anyone poke me I'll sue them because it's scandalous !".


Exactly the problem this update was trying to solve: intimidation and/or other diplomatic relations significantly reduced war aspect of the game. People were too afraid to attack someone it the fear of retaliation from some other stronger player or alliance. Creatures are immune to the such "diplomacy" and thus cause inconvenience to some portion of the players that have war aspect of the game solved by being part of the strong alliance that noone dares to touch.


1 month ago
Edited by berserker 1 month ago.

1 month ago

But that’s only because the new players who don’t all know each other for years (or at least don’t already know someone strong and ready to come for their protection) are so few.

upd. But i don’t feel it’s the diplomacy that mainly prevents people from fighting each other. It could be the ratio of gain and lose from pvp fighting. If the battles, especially early stone age battles, are too devastating for both the defender and the attacker, if rebuilding armies takes long hours and if there’s no need to look for extra resources elsewhere because your own town feeds you too well, who wants to attack. And if there’s no goodies not obtainable in any other way, even be it some unique achievements only (Stone Age Bully Of The Neighbourhood). Maybe war achievements should not come from hitting habitats.


1 month ago
Edited by Dazdraperma 1 month ago. Reason: upd

1 month ago

So, my point was that the CH have failed to acheive intention.  If the intention was to make people build walls and towers, I for one can confirm i wont do this.  This is not the best way to deal with CH.  it is far easier to plunder them until you can build 10 catapults, then go take care of them.  The experience of plundering daily, building a small amount of seige, and attacking them is not very satisfying imho, and is not acheiving your intention.  Overall, as i said earlier, it is much more of an annoyance. my game has become less enjoyable for their existence. They come too soon in the game, there are too many of them, it takes time and effort to deal with them.   Currently, i must send plunder every day multiple times to 5 towns that will be more every 2 weeks.  point click send, point click send. its not fun, its repetative, its annoying. and as i said, that is the best scenario i can currently see.  having monsters attack and having to rebuild armies etc is then just even worse.  I dont need instruction on how to defend or attack, so why am I subjected to this also?  is there no better way?


1 month ago
Edited by Brianna 1 month ago.

1 month ago

Reply to Brianna :


 is there no better way?


You may participate in PvP battles with other players as an attacker or defender - this will make monters sleep


1 month ago

1 month ago

Hi there. Here is my game experience with those new beats attacking.

Since I don't have enough time to destroy the beast dens, I deliberately have chosen to ignore them.

Usually, since it's just a plundering, there is no damage (when you are online and not afk for a while).

Now, look at how many dens there are. Considering I could have enough time now, how could I destroy all those inhabitants + dens? For a test purpose, I destroyed one of them. It takes an eternity to destroy only 1 of them, even with tons of catapults, for instance. 

 Later, when dragons spawn, very often I find my hero dead and cannot play for hours.

That's not really a good game experience.

Yes, I enjoy having potential targets, but too many of them strike and very often kill tons of units for "just a plundering".

I can understand why some players are discouraged.


Look at this screenshot : 


1 month ago

1 month ago

Reply to Freddydelanuit :


I deliberately have chosen to ignore them.


I expect berserker to tell you that this is exactly the mistake you made, when the monsters plunder, they use those resources to make more buildings, making more resources and more monsters and so on. If you don't have the time to destroy them, just kill the monsters there, then plunder them once a day with a few units like horses (no need to send the hero), once there nothing will spawn anymore so you don't even have to destroy them (I don't myself).


1 month ago

1 month ago

Thread is closed due to flame war. Read #1 before posting: http://www.enkord.com/about/rules/


1 month ago

1 month ago
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