Food production not balanced well enough

I have bad feelings about the current balance of food production. It seems to have gotten worse with recent changes to population from buildings, and I can only guess it's gonna get worse as I research more tech.

It is becoming very hard to keep a positive food source income. The population of a city can basically eat up to  50% of the food production, and with other production penalties, corruption, and even with a small army, my food production drops easily under the 0.

New units require a lot more food than previous units to maintain them alive, while food production increase remains the same (+10/lv). That doesn't make sense and overall food production can only decrease

I would actually suggest to change the production of food buildings accordingly, or reduce food expenses . Here are a few examples

• Instead of adding +10 food per level of farm (Tier3), the upgrades should add +20 food per level starting at medieval age. Would help compensate the population boom around medieval age.
• Reduce pop upkeep food consumption to 50% or 75% (that would also reduce huge requirements of food for army travel across the map)
• The science contribution is also taking a big % of food... I would really enjoy to be able to set it to 0% but just for food income
• Do we really need a mountain to build the windmill ? Combined with watermill, that just give so much of an advantage to players who can build cities on river... (easily +400 food with both, it's like giving them 2 extra food spots)

I don't know if other players have problems with food production, but for me it really feels imbalanced. Of course I don't want to impose my opinion. However, judging from how hard it has become to trade for food, I believe it's not just me who's having these difficulties.

I would also like to highlight that even though I'm playing as Leaderism and I kinda expected to have lower food production than other peaceful collectivist players, the disadvantage still seems too unfair.

You are right that food has become a huge issue this stage.  For example, if my memory serves, stone age archers did not consume 3 units of food per hour in previous stages and swordsmen did not consume 6 units per hour each.  This makes having any size army (a must for lead heroes) a very difficult task, even with lower age units, most of which you lose as you progress through the ages.

I agree that the food production has become very unbalanced for the reasons you stated and because of what I perceive have been changes to consumption on the part of military units and I do agree that changes need to be made.

I have to agree----Classical horsemen are now eating 7 drumsticks and I don't recall that being the case before. Well when you have the combination of people attached to buildings, corruption, the cost of research and armies that are now eating more and the seeming lack of global resources ie deer to help with food then ---as with other stages---the balance is off.I do remember very early last stage I believe Arri actually did the math that proved the number of people attached to buildings was off and that everyone would be in the negative for food. The decision was made to cut back the number of people attached to huts and houses to help offset the imbalance so it was not a bug this time that showed no people during a stage of hut building.We were given courthouses to help with the corruption issue and that was great but you can't get them until Medieval and the problem is now occurring in Classical. Once again I think it's a combination of factors.Anyway I hope that the problem with food ( which seems to occur every stage) will be revisited :)

INB4 someone comes in and tells you to turn your research slider down or something like that.

But yeah to be more relevant. Other then tech rushing to the next age for the next age farms, maybe making a new kind of special building would help with this. Something like...

Army logistics center: Reduces army food upkeep cost in the in the town its built in.

Or

Food management center: Reduces food income lost to corruption in the town its built in.

What do you guys think?

I also totally agree with this thread and all of the factors listed here. I had to keep plows on my towns at all times to keep them fed last stage and have the same issue this stage. I would love to build some of the new buildings but afraid I won't be able to feed them so I am not doing so :( This seems very counter productive.

You say build on food spots but the problem with that is then you are not given enough other resources such as iron, which is needed to build up the food. I am finding it a no win situation that is dramatically taking the fun out of playing. I just cannot afford the speedups to keep my town building

Agreed.  I have all food plots maxed in my dwelling with only 17 army units, and my food production is at -15 without my hero present.

In A3 my armies were 450-500 units strong and even though I could not keep them all in one town, I did not experience negative food production if over 100 were in town.  I had classical armies then with maxed classical production. 

I currently have classical armies and all but 100% maxed classical production and mid-level medieval production and having 100 or more army units in a town takes me down to low double digit production or into negative numbers.  Something is off here.  The difference should not be a reduction in food production with medieval farms and classical armies.  It should be an increase.  Clearly, the amount being eaten by the armies and the population increases in military buildings and other buildings are responsible. 

I think the food balance should be revisited also and as Tuey says, building on fertile plains (which are never where you want a town to be it seems) is not the answer as you lose iron and other resources needed for building farms, among other things.

It's not just an issue with those higher level players with big armies, either.  I'm only level 13, need to fight monsters to level up, many of the mobs in my towns are too strong for me to fight with my small army, can't build army because I can't feed them, so have to spend all my time and resources trying to max out crop fields... the time it takes to upgrade is long, but if I try to add more houses, it adds to the food consumption... Just a vicious circle.  Very tedious, and not much fun. 

Totally agree the food issue is out of balance. You can not have a big army without the extra boosts of the hero perk and buying the crop boost too for each town. Yes that takes the fun out of the game. Please consider some solution to this issue. 

as Tuey says, building on fertile plains (which are never where you want a town to be it seems) is not the answer as you lose iron and other resources needed for building farms, among other things.

Especially sea or river. I prefer a lot to have a town even with 4 food spots instead of 15 but able to make 10 to 18 galleys and cog ships. Well that's the point of view of someone aiming for war victory but that's mainly what food is for anyway.

I also definitely agree with this. Especially now I'm getting chests that need 20 units to open (units I don't need for my style of playing) - I train the units, open the chest and then instantly either dismiss those units or send them into disadvantageous battles to die, just so they won't keep eating my food. 

I'm only a little into medieval age, I've only just started upgrading my fellings and iron camps to the next stage, but my farms are already close to max, and I'm still struggling to get enough food to keep building.

what happen to the players when foods are not enough? i think one of the result is war among nations will getting more frequent, for the last verson, A4, there are less wars happen in the game, but now it happen at least twice a day for those only play collectivsim, and play every day

I also totally agree with this thread and all of the factors listed here.

Food the big issue as Always.

I also have problems not having enough food.

Like the ideas suggested earlier.

I totally agree, I am seeing it becoming a real issue at the beginning of Medieval, and as others have said, I am not building an insane army, just an adequate one :)

All you have to do is look in the market, everyone is asking for food for anything. 

I thought I would try to put some numbers in here.

Assume we have a player, probably collective who is in Medieval. They have managed to get all their production up to max.
They want to be protected so have build 30 level 5 archery towers as recommended by everyone:)They want to keep their build times as low as possible so have built 30 cottages, level 5. They also have seminary level 13, blacksmith level 5 as you have to have that to level up your library. They have a consulate level 2 as they wanted to be in an alliance and a market place level 6.
They also have to have storage and a temple.
They are not that bothered about a big army so only have garrison level 10 with legionaires, stables level 10 with horsemen and barracks level 10 with swordsmen. They have managed to build 4 towns which is about average but have not found good food plots:(

By my calculations the maximum food you can get with a 6 food plot and farms level 10 is 1800
Take away 20% due to inefficiency and 20% for research leaves 1080.

I have worked out that with the buildings and army stated above you maybe have 100 food income an hour left, and that is not counting any of the other medieval buildings to be built. When you have to use food to build lumbar up as well as feed your population, it is clear there is a problem in my opinion. Sorry to be long winded:)

So if nothing has changed, them maybe the population for towers and especially huts/ houses/ cottages needs to be looked at, and lowered a bit more. Those are the killers to food because of their large numbers.

Nothing has changed this stage in terms of unit food balance comparing to the previous stage. Players who say archers didn't consume 3, or swordsmen didn't consume 6, or horsemen didn't consume 7 and so on are wrong. It always has been like that from the very beginning, I have that history tracked here.

If something is off, this is not it.

My guess would be - people build much more towers and/or houses this time around which eats up food too :)

I only played the previous alpha, and then not seriously, so my opinion is only influenced with what I have experienced since the beginning of A5. So far, until the beginning of medieval age, I've had no problem with food. Now I have. Not so long ago my army just got wiped, so I had no more military units in my towns, and food production still sucked.

For a comparison, I applied Hors' Hoe in every single town (after my army got defeated, no more military upkeep), and it felt like the production was "normal" again. So basically I feel like missing a +25% production somewhere...