Old players driving out new players from the game

At one point I would have invited someone to play the game and actually did - but took back my invitation. I found that the game is sometimes controlled by those that have been around a long time. The older player by their actions and statements can decide if a new player gets to play or enjoy the game.  The older players can single out new players that get in their way and force them out of the game.  Not just force them from their location, which is understandable as part of the game, but tell the new player they must leave the game entirely. They warn the new player they will declare war on any alliance they join.  When the new player creates their own alliance, since they cannot join an existing alliance, the older player declares war on the smaller player's alliance of one, and alliances they are associated with also declare war on the smaller player making it 40 against 1.  Plus the older player threatens not just the hero in their way (understandable) but every other hero created by the new player or even associated with the new player.  Which in my opinion goes beyond fair play and part of the game and is instead a personal attack.  While aggression is part of the game, I think completely forcing a player and anyone associated with that player out of the game goes beyond normal game aggression. In my opinion it is mean and vengeful. Under those circumstances I could only invite someone equally mean and nasty to the game, which would not be fair to the nice players in the game. So I could not invite anyone. (I posted anonymously because revealing my name might also reveal the other player.)

I realize there are in-game items to protect one's town, and sometimes there is a lot of aggression in the game.  Peaceful players have to learn to live with that. I simply believe one player should not be able to force another  player to leave the game completely. Attempting to force a player to relocate - yes, but not tell them they have to leave the game.  Forcing players out causes the game to lose players and money, and if repeated too many times lose reputation.  I'm not sure how to fix it, but it I think it should be reviewed and considered.

In response to some of your comments I can tell you I declared war on you.  Not for any of the reasons you claim but look at your new town placement. That is a deliberately aggressive move and the only recourse there is, when there is an alliance, is to declare war.  Take it or leave it, that is part of the game.  Border building is not tolerated by many players so you border build at your own risk.

It is unfortunate that you came here during what is artificially a closed group.  Many of us have been here for several stages or more and you happened to be placed near an experienced player.  Your statements that the player threatened to run you off the game are hyperbolic.  I do know you initially agreed to relocate but then went back on that agreement.  When a larger player wants space he or she will fight for it.  Also, part of the game.

One last point.  War was not declared jointly or in tandem so any accusations to that effect are specious and you have not been hit by us.  Yet. 

My declaration of war was also based on location and not by a collaboration of alliances.

While it is true that I have many friends, and they are spread out in many different alliances, my decision was based on the fact that I have members located in that area and it will benefit them in several ways.

And in no way, have we ever indicated that we want any player to leave the game.

And in no way, have we ever indicated that we want any player to leave the game.

Nor have I or any of mine.  Thank you for reminding me I had one more last point to make.  :-)

Just to add to River and Mari's comments in response to 'anonymous', who is posting about my actions in the game, although she is making so many false accusations.  This is not surprising, since i have been accused several times by this player of 'hacking' her game and/or internet and she has threatened even to 'call the FCC' on me (even though i do not even live in the US). 

I have never once told this player they must leave the game entirely.  Yes, i've asked her several times to relocate, as she is completely surrounded on all sides by other players including myself.  Instead, she's just put up a lada's and built on my border.  This is certainly NOT considered 'peaceful' in this game.  She will claim that this was all done as a result of my aggression and 'threats'.  Well, it would appear that i've learned a lesson - instead of trying to be nice and asking a person to relocate nicely, is is better to just not talk at all or give the 'noobs' any sort of fair warning.  This is certainly what i will do in the future.  Just watch the neighbor put in time and effort and possibly even money into building their domain, and then take it down for them when the time comes.     

First, my new town was placed in it's current location days AFTER war was declared on my alliance.  What is ignored here is that TWO new towns were placed on my border within days of each other, blocking me from reaching the river.  Apparently that is okay, just playing the game. However when the middle town disappears, and I take advantage of the empty space to build a new town to reach the river, so I can build a harbor, it is considered an aggressive move.  I did not see in the rules that only certain players are allowed to build on another player's border.  Yes I was placed near an experienced player, but that was not my doing. If there is a problem with that it should be brought up to the developers.  I consider it simply a test of the game and how players react when placed in close proximity to each other.  And as a real test of the game, players have every right to stay and fight for their space if they choose to do so.  Otherwise it is not a real test if new player always give up immediately and move.  And while I am squeezed between multiple players, only one player has a problem. Has demanded I relocate, and yes leave, and continually threaten to "take down" my domain, although they have plenty of room to grow.  Meanwhile I have actually helped one of my other neighbors grow even though it inhibits my own growth.  It is my understanding Ladas are part of playing the game and can be used by any player anytime they chose to do so.  Are you suggesting players sit peacefully by and allow their domains to be attacked and "taken down"?  It is my understanding every player has a right to, and is expected to, fight back as part of the game.  As an note, had war not been declared on my alliance as soon as it was created, which was until then my final goal with this hero, I could have stopped expanding and devoted more time and energy to my other hero.

One other thing - I never agreed to relocate. Because this was my first hero, my first time playing, and a lot of time and with the time and effort put in, I did not agree to just give up and start over. I did agree that after completing a few more goals with this hero I would stop expanding and create an additional hero. I created the new hero.  Unfortunately the expansion caused by the current hero to be able to create/join an alliance was not tolerated, or accepted. Instead I was informed war would be declared on any alliance I joined, and shortly thereafter I was attacked by multiple members of an alliance, who said it was because I had broken my agreement.

I would like to pointed out something who is generating a lot of difficult situations between veterans and new players : the number of the heroes. I am playing since almost 1 year now and I know that is not easy to manage corectly more than 2 heroes. Or, today I can see on the map a lot of new players with 3, 4 or 5 heroes. Is obvious that they wont be able to manage all of them, they will stay in low ages, with 1 or 2 town most of the time. They will be sooner or later surrounded by big players having only 1 or 2 heroes. And the end is always the same, the big player will attack the small player - is a fact - lot of anger and call names and so on ...

A solution could be to allow only 2 heroes in the begining, a 3rd one wil be authorised after 2 months of playing. A 4th one after 3 month of playing and so on .If the player wants to create a  3rd hero before this period, must be penalised - lossing his novice protection protection for example ( imo someone able to manage 3 heroes is not novice at all) and more other penalties for more heroes. If the player is able to manage 2 heroes for 2 full months he will see that is not so easy and more he will advance in the game, the more will spend time and energy to rise his countries.

Further more, when the game will be released, considering the number of the players, maybe only 2 heroes could be allowed on each continent. A 3rd one could be created if one of 2 heroes is deleted or destroyed ( or reduced to 1 cell) 

Also , I would like to speak about something else, even if is not directly related to this thread.                                   I think a tutorial is necessary for those who wants to create an alliance. Today , I can see alliances with 1 or 2 players , or, 1 single player having his 5 heroes in his own alliance - just because they imagine that being in an alliance will protect them somehow. The bigger the alliance it is the more chances will have to face a big alliance in case of war. A leader must have a solid experience in the game, he must be able to share his knowledge with his folks, teaching them how to defend or how to attack and helping them advancing in the game. Also a lot of diplomacy is required,  lot of conflictual situations could be solved peacefully from leader to leader. 

Well, I think that's all :-) 

http://www.totemtribe.com/talk/minimizing-angst-from-being-attacked/

I'm not sure this is the place but since this is where it was mentioned I would like to respond to the alliance comment.  A tutorial on alliances would be a good thing. I agree with the reasons to be in a big alliance but think  the 2 person alliances may be a necessity for some. For example, I had been invited to, and was excited about, joining a big alliance for the reasons mentioned in the previous post. Just before I completed the requirements to join I was told war would be declared on any alliance I joined leaving me unable to join the big alliance I had been invited to.  I tried to join a warring alliance and found C's wanted D's to shore up their defenses and D's wanted other D's. (No I did not ask every single alliance). Left with more resources than I could use and unable to join an alliance to share, my options were 1) Create a household alliance, 2) build domains in the same kingdom to share resources and continue exploring, or 3) let all the extra resources go to waste.  I chose to create a family alliance, and build on my domain. I imagine others were in similar situations. Personal alliances are not ideal but are needed for those who cannot, or feel they cannot, join bigger established alliances.  Perhaps if there were some sort of protection or incentive to become a 5 person alliance, with at least 2 members from different accounts/households, more players would drop the 2 person alliances and band together. I know I would invite others if I were not afraid we would be wiped off the map right away.

I think one of the missing elements in this discussion is the importance of networking with other players in the game.

You need to reach out to your neighbors right away and become a team player. If you are always poking your neighbor in the eye, you will not be wanted in any alliance. Diplomacy is an important function of the game. If player A makes themselves useful to player B, than you can be sure that player A will welcome them. 

Interrogating veteran players with new players is not hard if you are friendly and well mannered. Arguing and complaining earns you enemies and not friends. 

I do think that River's suggestion of a 2nd change hero would make a move more easy for a player and warrants looking into. It is hard to move or start over when you have put in so much time on a hero, just to have that wiped by a neighbor.

Several of the concerns that the first anonymous player suggested, will not be a worry when the game goes into beta. There will be to many players to worry about going after all of their heroes, plus there will be several continents and no one will be able to reach every kingdom in the game.

As the number of players increase, even the veteran players will have to make new friends in order to survive.

My advice is to be nice to all of your neighbors and use some judgement as to when to leave and when to stay. No one picks their neighbors in this game and often some of your biggest enemies may very well turn out to be your best friends. I have certainly had that happen to me and most others have had the same experience.

The player vs player is the best and worst part of this game. I hope that every player makes lots of friends and enjoys the fabulous game that Bers and the rest of the team are creating for all of us.

I fully agree that an alliance tutorial / quest should be there. As a newbie I was reluctant to join because I was afraid that if I join  a big, wide spread alliance I would be a target to potential warring alliances and with members far away I couldn't rely on any help. Well, sounds silly to me now :D And I wish I made the decision to join earlier. There's no way a new player can learn as fast and as much as within an established alliance, especially with an experienced leader and experienced members. I would be nowhere near what I am now without the help of Sandy Sue, fellow Phoenix players and my friends at Black Flag. In A4 joing other collectivists I learned about defenses and trades and expansion, and when in A5 I ventured to play leaderism (despotism) I was lucky to run into Arya :) But from the get go I knew I wanted to join a good allinace and a despotism one - how would I learn to play as a despot otherwise?

So any incentive for 2 or 5 member alliances would be counter productive. Rather there should be a quest to join an stay within an allinace (for at least a month or so) that is big, established / high in the rankings, etc.

I find that maybe new players are (as I was myself) to timid to join or maybe unwilling to try and learn from others. In a multiplayer game this should be a goal, but too many players avoid that for whatever reason. In my chats (with some of my targets, lol) I've heard some surprising reasons for not joining - like, I was invited, but they seemed like war-mongers. That's a perfect reason to join if you want help in defending! But how a new player is supposed to understand that? I think there should be some incentive to join, to try out the multiplayer aspect of the game in a good way.

Btw, I love starting new heros :) Sometimes, when your build times get so long, and you've visited all those locations it's so refreshing to start anew. Explore again, again hope for globals and lots of space, etc ;p Even if there's no possibility to finish before the alpha ends...

"New" once and we had to learn the game, the same as you and other
new players are learning now.the problem with this statement is that the 'older' players were all learning at the same time. From what I understand you all shared everything on common chat.

This is actually untrue, not all of us started in the same alpha. And actually the common chat is one of the worst places to share anything game related. I have been attacked for putting a spoiler by accident in the common chat.

Now when i first started i was worried because i started about halfway through an alpha, many players had already finished all of the available tech and could wipe me from the map with ease. I had to move heros before, I had a hero destroyed before, and I had a hero attacked multiple times from a couple alliances.

Yes this will all seem crazy to many old and new, but the point is this is part of the game. You have many ways to play, and if i had complained and ran away, i would not have learned just how much fun the game can actually be. By the multiple attacks i was able to learn defenses, By making friends from the attacks i was able to learn to attack.

There are no rules saying you can not build a town on another persons border, but this is aggression, just like there are no rules saying a person can attack you for land. Either way the most important fact of this game is that it is a Multiplayer game with PVP elements, you will have players of all types. 

So, you can decide to pack the hero and move to a new location, or stay and defend your hero as well as you can. These are options you have and all of us have done.

I want to point out, that while we may fight like a dysfunctional family, if you take it all with a good attitude, you may find yourself friends with the very player that you so dislike at the moment.

Many times, someone who I was attacking, later became a very dear friend. 

Keep in mind, that this is a game and that attacks are often strategical and not personal. Everyone is here to have fun.

The "older players"  have been my best teachers and advisers.  I always have a new batch of newbies join my alliance and I try to relay the same lessons and advice to them.  Many of them leave to join more aggressive alliances because mine is too "dull"  and no Mari, don't want you to liven it up.  I encourage building defenses and treating other players with respect and stress enjoying the game.  I warn them to expect attacks as part of the game and so far have been successful with helping them learn to have fun with this game. 

At Least  I HOPE I have been successful lol

Older players are what is making this game so successful, not driving players away.

I have decided to leave the game. I have played in a few of the stages. The last stage, I was attacked several times. I lost resources and men. But it wasn't repeated or pointed.  I know it is part of the game and accept it. However, during this stage, I have been targeted by several players and am attacked up to five or six times a day. I am a peaceful player and do not attack other. So my response was to built up to the point where I could stash my players and only take them out when I wanted to adventure. Without the stash, they were all dead when I returned to the game. I have tried to build up defenses but those attacking me are way too strong. I come back to find building gone or several levels lower. I am not making much forward progress. And I can no longer adventure because everything I have has to go into defending myself against these attacks.

I tried PMing one of the people who told me "it wasn't personal." But it definitely feels personal when that person attacks you over and over again. And she told me it was only because she needed the resources.

I am sure that I will be told "this is part of the game." However, I can agree with those who feel as if they are being driven out of the game. A player does not have to say "I want you gone." They only have to attack you time and time again to prove it.

Why isn't there a way for those of us who are peaceful to play the game without aggression? I love to go on adventures and this game could certainly allow for that. You offer two ways to play but what the creators of the game fail to see is that people like me cannot co-exist with those who are only interested in gaining territory and making war.

Can't the world map be split in two with those who want peace being in one area and those who want war being in another? With no way to cross over?

I have spent hundreds of dollars playing because I believe in supporting those who spend their lives creating games. I do not have this skill, but I appreciate it. I leave the game having over $60,000 in Enkord Cash. If there is a way to transfer the money to another person, I would like Placenull - I think I got that correct - to have it.

I am really really sad to go as this game has brought me so much pleasure - until recently. To those who have attacked me unmercifully - you won. the space is yours. I hope you enjoy your world domination at the cost of another's fun. I have purposefully given my name here. I hope those who have spent the last several weeks attacking me unceasingly will recognize it and feel some sense of shame.

Rather there should be a quest to join an stay within an allinace (for at least a month or so) that is big, established / high in the rankings, etc.

I have been playing for a few Alphas, have been in alliances, and made lots of friends with both old and new players.  I chose to have my own small alliance for a couple of reasons.  One is that having a lot of folks I consider friends, they may not all be on good terms, thus I can remain neutral and exercise diplomacy.  Another is that I can see the world map that my heroes have cleared.  Also, while at times I miss alliance chat, in general I like to play in relative peace and quiet lol :)  Playing this way has a number of negatives including the inability to share resources, reinforce, or command troops.  I understand this was put in place to prevent abuse, however I wish there were other ways to do it. 

The bottom line is I would not like to be forced by the game to play in one way or another.