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In today's update I have attempted to solve a serious balance problem existed before - there were too many resources and it was hard to spend them as they were produced faster than you can spend because construction times were so long that even ordering expensive building resulted in your storage buildings being overloaded while building was in construction. This wasn't very fun and resulted in absent incentive to upgrade storage buildings especially in second towns.

To overcome this I have changed building prices and times. Now prices are higher but building times are lower. You might find that some low levels have increased construction but all of the high levels now have significantly lower construction times (some of them more than 10 times lower).

If some of you have plans to create new hero after this update it would be great if you pay attention and compare how your progress is, comparing to past accounts. Sure, all existing accounts will benefit from this as well, but it will be most interesting to compare full progress from scratch.

Post in this thread your observation about balance changes and when became better due to this and what became worse.

Edited by berserker 7 years ago.

7 years ago

You raised all the times on the lower production facilities - almost double - which is during the time it can least be afforded. If you are going to raise the costs for the higher levels, increase the times then. That would make more sense.

7 years ago

well i do like the faster construction times on high lvl buildings, but what is the reason to increase the times on the low lvl buildings? 

in my opinion you should have kept the low lvl building times as they were. if you make it harder for the 'noobies' to get resources they may not stick around to get to the high lvl stuff at all. it was very fun with a new character to build and build and build and watch your town grow fairly quickly. but now the times have changed and the perception of low lvl town has changed drastically.

Edited by An Angel 7 years ago.

7 years ago

The time was changed for more steady progression. It was too fast in the beginning and too slow on higher levels. Now it is more gradual. I don't think building up new town slowed down all that much as I've been testing new town with these changes for the past few days now.

I will wait for people to try the new towns from scratch and progress it at least into second town and then make conclusions. Just looking at the numbers is not enough to do measured verdict.

7 years ago

I like the shorten time in high lvl buildings. But I think that increasing construction time in the beginning will end up with overall increasing time to build the whole stuff in your town, especially that now high lvls cost more => you will need more resources => you will spend more time on upgrading low lvls => it doesn't sound like decreasing overall time. 

7 years ago

I would really like for people to play a few days and then make conclusions, because this type of changes is too deep to just do a glimpse on prices and judge it.

7 years ago

I have tha ability to start one more hero and I will check out the changes with it over the weekend

7 years ago

Great! It does not surprise me at all that you volunteered :)

7 years ago

I will start a new hero too.

7 years ago

Reply to kiwiaunty :

I will start a new hero too.

I can't wait to see what name you choose :)

7 years ago

well, i think it's a good thing for high level ones and a bad thing for low level ones. This are the 2 faces of the coin

Maybe, as you said, its too early and we sould test it more, but for the moment: in my second and not so advanced town its fine, but in the first i cant build almost anything, for the prices( i dont have enough storage for top level upgrades) and for said storage upgrading time, that i must recognice its a lot better now, but now we have to frenetically upgrade them in order to afford other high level buildings

On the other hand, in my 2nd town i can build a lot more of things in the same time (for example: hunter's hovel lv 11 from 11 hours to 1 i think

As everything, this has detractors and people that likes it, and the truth, i still know don't what to think

Edited by Chao 7 years ago.

7 years ago

I'm going to start a new one too :)

7 years ago

I know you will wait some days but i will post my thought for the effects right now.

When i enter the game often my store is full and i will built some upgrades to use my stuff. I won't be forced to stay at the game along the whole day, everytime in mind i could lose something important.

Till now i just thought my income is to big no need to upgrade my gardens, forestries and stone fields more than level 6. In my new towns such buildings was less than this because i could transfer needed ressources. I don't like waitingtimes of between 30min and 8h because its a boring timeframe. More than 8hours is ok so you can do something in reallife like school, work, sleeping or something else. Now it seems most of the buildingstimes exactly within this boring timeframe. Other side i really like the option to finish an upgrade less than 5min without waiting but it seems you reduce the chances to get such small possibilities because of the changes of medium level of huts and res-buildings.

Some needed res of an upgarde is and was bad balanced. Sometimes you need more food, sometimes you need much more stone, and mosttime you need large amounts of wood. Mosttime your store is empty with a ressource and other store is nearly full.

Lets talk about friends help, with timeframes now just less number of friends can help.

Lets talk about whole progress. First town will need longer to grow. You will need more time to raise your income and huts to reduce waiting, also you need larger amouts for chieftrainhut. Maybe huts lose some effect because it makes no reals difference to wait 17min, 36 sec instead of 18 min or to wait 1 hour or 80 secounds more. Sure with 10 huts if will be 20% but you need some days to built them and you also have countereffect of all other buildings because of your population. In my mind along whole playtime i had nearly same times sometimes a few percent less mosttime some percent more. Now huts seems to be less important and i will spend more time to upgrade my res-buildings.
All next towns could grow faster because you can transfer needes amouts of res from another town and invest them in your res-buildings or culture-buildings. Just chieftrain hut will brake out your progress a bit. But if you are not online every 3-4 hours you could lose something of your progress and thats a really bad point.

Lets talk about pushing, now its possbile to push an account with ressources. I know you will make it impossible to transfer res in final stage but also with trading and bad exchange you can cheat and milk some of you secondary accounts to push your main.

So i don't see the really good points in balance with your last change.

Edited by knutistgut 7 years ago.

7 years ago

This also makes it even more difficult for those of us who prefer to play without battling. It is now impossible to build up defenses in the time under novice truce and if we have a warrior neighbor we spend all our time rebuilding and never growing. I agree some tweaking was in order, but this "fix" used a sledgehammer where a toothbrush would have worked perfectly.

7 years ago

I also think you went way to far on both lowering the times and adding amount of resources :(

I don't need to start a new hero to see this. I prefer to build all of my huts before my population is too high and to see the staggering number of resources required to upgrade the chieftain hut this will no longer be possible. I also was ready to see a level 10 petroglyph and you priced me right out of it. To me it now looks like we won't be able to build anything without waiting for resources to accummulate. I have almost 300 an hour I'm not sure why you think that isn't enough. Also the main reason I haven't built my farms and stones and wood up is the need to compete for domain size. while it takes two levels of build to get one culture your neighbor can build a totem pole and earn four. Today I deleted the hero where I have spent the past week battling to keep my horses as my neighbor was able to build her second town closer to them and she kept taking them into her domain. Today prices were so high that even with a level 9 warehouse I could no longer build anything with culture to keep ahead of her. Also now when you go to bed at night you will no longer feel like your town is progressing because you started an 8 hour building. I already buy hammers to queue buildings for the 16 hours when I am at work but now that will be impossible also. So not sure about this change but I'll keep playing to see, all I can really say is I hurried home from work only to be very disappointed because I don't have enough resource to build anything but gardens and wood or upgrade all of my warehouses. 

7 years ago

Hmm first meaning was a shock. Now after 14 hours online i could built more than before. But just because i was able to stay online and i was in my town every hour. In such a case the update was good. But like i said i won't be forced to stay online along whole day.

I was talking about wood in my upper posting but now i think stone is much more needed as before.

So i would say pro update:
More possibilities along a session of 6-8 hours. If you are out of res you still can built houses with small requirement like huts or gardens.

Contra update you need to rework:
- less options to help friends, you must start a building more than 30 min and with most larger upgrades just 2-3 friends can help.
- less chances to reduce building time below 5 min to use to finishing-feature.
- huts become ineffective
- some items at cashshop senseless now, for example 8 hours, 24 hours, 30% reduction
- amount between all ressources still unbalanced, now it is to much stone. Some buildings need just 1 or 2 ressources and large differences between them.
- less possibilities to stay offline for more than 8hours, then your store will be full and building task is empty so you will have a bad feeling to lose something. You are forced to log in, start a upgrade and wait 10min - 2hours and then upgrade next.

Edited by knutistgut 7 years ago.

7 years ago

I am perfectly willing to suffer through a 100% increase in a few minutes at lower levels when my benefit may be a decrease in hours at the upper levels. At the lower levels the resources needed to increase production is minimal. It is easier and less expensive to obtain and use novice manuals that help overcome these relatively small time changes than it is to get scholar manuals to use at higher levels. This is my early (lower level) observation. Berserker suggested we wait a few days to comment on changes... so I will just continue on ...

7 years ago

Reply to Tuey :


Also now when you go to bed at night
you will no longer feel like your town is progressing because you
started an 8 hour building. I already buy hammers to queue buildings for
the 16 hours when I am at work but now that will be impossible also. So
not sure about this change but I'll keep playing to see, all I can
really say is I hurried home from work only to be very disappointed
because I don't have enough resource to build anything but gardens and
wood or upgrade all of my warehouses. 

I think it's mostly a habit. You say it's a feeling where you no longer progressing because you cannot queue enough buildings, but on the other side, your production was halted because of storage buildings were full and it was a block in progress as well. It's just felt less important because resources were plenty but it's not right. Before the update the time as a resource was way more important than food/lumber/stone and at the same time you were able to buy time in infinite amounts via Cash Shop which was unfair because non-paying players would not be able to be on par with paying players. Let's take a step back and take a look how it was before for a paying and non-paying players in these two hypothetical scenarios:

  • Non-paying player could play at her own pace without problem, but what happens if she tries to compete with a paying player? She will hardly able to do so, because resources were plenty and construction instant. If paying player decides to compete real hard, she could build 10x or 20x times or even faster than non-paying player. Non-paying player understands there is not even a slightest chance for her and it's not fun and quits the game. The non-paying players are majority in free-to-play game and if most of them quit it's like shrinking the user base ten times - paying players will be left to compete with other paying players and it becomes much harder for them as they have to spend more than the other paying player. Thus money required to have fun suddenly skyrockets and it's not fun to play for such a paying player as well. This results in some of the paying players quit the game too, and so on.
  • Paying player on the other side before the balance had the ability to build as fast as her wallet allows her to. This might look fun at first but as soon as she realize her progress is heavily based on her spendings the magic of the game will go away and she will realize the game just squeezing her for the extra bucks. Maybe she will quit at this point, but probably not as she is hooked. She will keep playing for some time but it will not be as enjoyable anymore, because she realized she have to pay in order to progress at the steady rate and if she stops she will be slowed down significantly. Just like a drug addiction. Such player will quit later on, probably leaves us a good chunk of money before she will, but most of the playtime she will not be happy, she will definitely post about her feelings more than once on forums, poisoning the atmosphere in the community and brining the depressive mood to other players.

With current new changes and building time/prices resources are way more important than they were before. Because you cannout buy resources with real money, you are unable to speed up your progress too fast and thus you are less obligated to spend real money as it gives you less advantage. Sure, some particular buildings might be overpriced but it's just a detail that could be fixed later on, the main thins behind this update is an IDEA that resources should be more important than time because they cannot be purchased with real money and thus will not turn the game into pay-to-win scenario.

This might sound counter-intuitive that I am as a business man instead of trying to squeeze as much money as possible from his customers trying to make them spend less but the reality is I don't want to make a quick buck. I want try to build a game that will be long-playing with a healthy positive community which will bring them a lot of positive gaming experience and a steady cash flow to the developer, because happy customers are more loyal.

So why don't you people put a bit more trust in us instead of jumping on bashing bandwagon so fast? You have been trusting us for all these years, but now so quick to judge because we made you uncomfortable for one time even though this is made for good in the long run? I do understand, everyone loves comfort and prefer to preserve the status quo, but it's alpha test, and if there is perfect time to change things we better do it sooner than later.

I think you are setting your hopes too high too soon and demand from the alpha version to provide you more fun that it should. This early version is meant to be ugly - it will be broken intentionally many times in the future while testing process works in order to make a truly wonderful game even if it looks like we are doing it worse. The fact that we have something working "okay" does not mean we should stop and accept it and we would not. We will be breaking stuff constantly until everything will be perfect so better accept that now so you will not be surprised again in the future.

Edited by berserker 7 years ago.

7 years ago

Reply to berserker :


With current new changes and building time/prices resources are way more important than they were before. Because you cannout buy resources with real money, you are unable to speed up your progress too fast and thus you are less obligated to spend real money as it gives you less advantage.

Sure ressources more important but now all things around buildingtime are less important. About buying ressources thats not true, i did and it was more expensive. You can raise your income but you need 3 items for. You can buy coins and use the wheel of fortune as much as you want. Maybe you are lucky and get some ressources, if its the wrong ressource you can change this at your market using another item. I used some of my ecash to do so to my first town. Because of the fact you can trade and so you are able to get nearly endlessly ressources there is no real brake out anymore. Time was always a fix and rare ressource, you just have influence with some items and friendshelp. Hurray to upcomming multiaccounting even with the option you can switch between your accounts. Just have 3 heros trading with your friend who have 3 heros to trade with you.

And btw i just give you my thoughts because ouf my style of playing. In past i played such kind of games with alarm clock. I wake up at night just to built the next thing, I also played at work, but i won't do such things anymore.

If im able to stay online whole day your changes great, but i won't do this because it ruins real life and i need some time without playing. In past i was happy to have a few buildings with large buildingtime because i know i can stay offline for a while. Now when i come online sure i can built something but with less time and because my store will be full with some other ressources i need to be there when the task ends. So im forced to be online in 30min up to 2hours along whole day. If you want play this game in session of 1-2 hours, 2-3 times a day your chances less now.

Edited by knutistgut 7 years ago.

7 years ago

Reply to Tuey :

. Also now when you go to bed at night you will no longer feel like your town is progressing because you started an 8 hour building. I already buy hammers to queue buildings for the 16 hours when I am at work but now that will be impossible also. So not sure about this change but I'll keep playing to see, all I can really say is I hurried home from work only to be very disappointed because I don't have enough resource to build anything but gardens and wood or upgrade all of my warehouses. 

I may be wrong, but I thought the point of all of this is so we will no longer need to take a long winter's nap while we wait on an 8 hour building. Upgrading different resources and production buildings both increases the amount of resources and decreases the time it takes to accumulate them. So if I concentrate more on resource building from the very beginning of my game play, they will be at higher grades than they are now in later game play, and will producing more when I need them to.

7 years ago