[Feedback request] Prolonged protection for beginner players

i like it, i would not want to be responsible for running off new users to the game and agree fully that they should have better protection to kick start the learning progress of the game. 

there is a lot to learn in this game, and even us that have been playing a little longer still find new things all the time.

My first suggestion would be to figure out how often you would be able to play the game.

Because if you are not able to play much and one or more of your neighbors seems like they play a lot they will generally outpace you in almost everything, so you will need to account for that fact.

Just curious, would this apply to all new heroes created, even if the player has actually been playing another hero for much longer? Or literally only complete beginners to the game? If it is the latter I think that some extra protection may be useful, but not for an experienced player just starting a new hero somewhere else.

I would propose also to protect somehow cities of newbie in "Stone age" from "siege" damage of advanced artillery (medieval/renaissance) . Because there is simply not enought protection at Stone age to stand against heavy siege dmg from artillery/ships of that stage. Especially in current game reality, where very advanced players are relatively nearby to new one players at neighbouring continents.

I would propose also to protect somehow cities of newbie in "Stone age" from "siege" damage of advanced artillery (medieval/renaissance) . Because there is simply not enought protection at Stone age to stand against heavy siege dmg from artillery/ships of that stage. Especially in current game reality, where very advanced players are relatively nearby to new one players at neighbouring continents.

A better system would be extending the truce up or doing the wave attack protection counter more of a loss-points protection counter. So small same-age attacks won't be as equal to higher-age coming up to nearly blast half of your town away.

Great ideas Bers! 

I'm wondering-- is there a record of played hours and if so, could you use that as general way to judge newbie status? 

although, i'm sure there would be some error % due to some percentage of people that leave their game on... but in general, those who don't play a lot would log fewer hours.. and those eager to play and are ambitious, will take more time playing therefore increasing their learning speed.  

Just my perspective. ...curious to see what happens. =)

Maybe it is just better to give to all people the same chances, same opportunities, same conditions and especially same TIME...Then let all people free to choose their way. Noone wouldn’t be more older than any other player than a specified amount of time. Maybe two weeks or maybe just some more. It would be a good idea also to create some “higher leagues” formed by older, experienced and much stronger players. If some people wants to enter those leagues would be able to do that after meeting some requirements. People always should be aware of what they would be faced and must have some options. The crucial rule must be always this: Never let any new player facing with those type of “people”: Some older, experienced, more developed and yes...has nothing to do but the AGRESSION...

All this is interesting, but, new domains drop in next, and I do mean next, to larger domains all the time.  The more established players will want that room and space.  Maybe change the placement algorithm so new countries are not placed on the border of a more established country (esp those with alliances to back them up and make room for them). 

Now, you can tell me I'm seeing things but I've noticed this on Thorheim where I see new domains drop within one or three cells of much larger ones.  People are competing for space and when a new domain drops in on or near their borders they tend to want to eliminate that competition.

Additional protection just makes it more likely the new players will be attacked and wiped out when they have put more time and energy into their new kingdom, making the pain that much worse, I'm afraid. 

One more point.  What you are seeing now is, I think, partly a result of adding players to an established mix, and I can't see the same dynamic happening in the final release where, in theory, everyone is new and the map much bigger.  Most of the players hitting the new kingdoms are veterans and are making space for their allies or themselves, not to mention boosting attack rankings.

If you have mostly new players (in theory something that will happen when the game is mostly new due to general release) they will all be fairly equal in progress, with some being faster and some being slower minimizing this "noob" hitting activity.   I also think the smallness of the current map has something to do with this.

Additional protection just makes it more likely the new players will be attacked and wiped out when they have put more time and energy into their new kingdom, making the pain that much worse, I'm afraid. 

How being wiped earlier when you haven't even had a chance to enjoy the game is better than when it happens later when you already know the game and what is fun in it? :)

It is worse for players that have established a domain, put time and effort into building a country, no to mention money, and they get very attached to it and take it very personal when attacked.

It will be difficult to satisfy each playerstyle equally in this PVP game. Also it will be difficult to find a good balance between protecting newbies and smothering PVP activity.

But protecting newbies against very experienced/active players is a viable part of this games set-up, in order to make it succeed in the way it is intended to become eventually. This game should be fun to play, also for unexperienced players, that join later.

This can be achieved by the way as proposed, but also by timelocks on the attacking party.

Time locking repeated attacks from the same player(s) versus the same opponent makes the chosen gamestyle more fluid in the sence, that personal rivalry will be more difficult, without adding a limitation on the chosen playerstyle. This way a lucky newbie with nice resources within reach, will not immediately be scared away by a selfish neighbour or alliance.

For example: If players are in the same age, the next attack is possible after X hours. Add X for every difference in age and X for every attacker taking part of a coordinated attack. For every stage a defending player advances, X loses say 50%.

This way you will have two variables that can act together on protecting newbies. The first (Truce) protects against all attacks, the second (Timelock) protects against personal rivalry.

Ok.. long post and in my own defense...after chasing kiddos and changing diapers I've sat down to finish and there is a new post. I agree with Frodo's idea... 

When people begin the game for the first time they are introduced to a great game and can see that there are aspects of war and attacking, as well as, building and strategy. I know in their mind the thought is I can be attacked. That in itself is a foreseeable happening as it is explained and expected to be able to defend your domain. When you really think about being attacked and what that attack might be like it is absolutely nothing compared to what can really happen in game. "I can be attacked" Ok, I anticipate someone attacking me or maybe a couple of people a few times. Even if it were more some people do sleep.. lol What happens in game you receive a "friendly" message that it would be in  your best interest to move locations or maybe not a message at all. This may not happen until someone has reached a far point and spent hours building and maybe just got to the level they can grab some of those monsters that have been taunting them since they started. They have now put not only time  into the game but have become quite attached to their little cities and so on. The idea of "move" isn't quite appealing so they deny the message given. They now expect they might be attacked by the person who messaged them. What happens at this point... either it is just that one person who attacks them or that new person is hit by a full alliance. This results in wave after wave of attacks with no stopping (rotating attacks so sleep is not an issue.. lol). You are hit 20+ times in a row by a full complement of armies. There is no stop until you are completely wiped out or taken over by the alliance. Those that have had this happen are now faced with starting over or quitting completely. The ones I've spoken to personally see no purpose in starting over for it to just happen again and state there is absolutely no way to defend against any attack like that. So.. they quit the game completely :(  

Do not get me wrong.. Yes, this is an aspect of the game and yes some of those people instigate a fight with someone in that alliance. Some of the people are completely wiped out of game did nothing other than build a town where they were placed and had no clue what could happen. I have seen a very well defended person be attacked this way and when I read the initial report not one of the 5 (if I remember the number right) that attacked first were damaged at all. They lost not one unit and the person being attacked had fully leveled towers as well a wall and a defending army. Though not all of the army was at the initial location. When reviewing the report and seeing that they lost not one person... yeah it can be quite the blow. The ensuing waves of attacks brought that town from 600+ culture to 30ish where it was taken over in a very small amount of time. The actual ability to rebuild is not really an option as the town was taken down long before a Lada Ward could take effect and any attempts at rebuilding while being attacked were decimated by the next attack just minutes later. 

Going through something like that.. can I see where they just give up?? Sure. I can totally commiserate with that person. Smaller ones that have had this happen as they were just beginning are not likely to want to continue or restart. They will see it as I need to put money in the game to get things to defend myself better however that really won't help quite as much as they think considering most of the items are not of a defensive nature. I've tried talking to the ones who quit and implore them to start again with the next alpha... "give it another go" type thing.. 

Long story short.. Yes, I think there is a need to protect the newbies a bit more than they are now. Will it help in the long run...yes and no.. it will give them more of a chance to enjoy the game and have fun... and become quite attached to their little cities and proud of the achievements they have accomplished. Those yetti's went down and I didn't lose my entire army kind of thing !!!! If you are targeted for whatever reason will an attack of epic value be looming on the horizon just after that protection wears off .. Yes .. is there any way to defend against those types of attacks?? No... unless your full alliance sent their entire army to defend you.. maybe you would have a fighting chance... but that is only IF you are online when the initial attack happens... after that reinforcements are basically suicide squads as the city's main defense system (Towers and Wall) has been eliminated.

I totally get that people irritate on purpose by putting towns right next to a border for that sole purpose. (Though I've had one put a city within one cell of my border with the intent of keeping me from getting to some resources... but...instead of arguing or moaning about it ... I chalk it up to it's a game and that's what you do in a game)  I get that they may be rude and just downright hateful. Retaliation is expected and totally justified. Just take a minute to think about those that haven't done anything really and are hit with that kind of attack...  food for thought as any game enjoyment they did experience is now gone ...  

I am now on my 3rd or 4th incarnation of my main player account and decided to only have 1 for the foreseeable future.  The earlier ones essentially got wiped out before they could establish a reasonable store of resources, let alone an army, which led me to abandon them and I can see it would mean some newbies abandoning the game altogether.

I found this game rather slow to progress, the science tech just takes so long for each element compared to your science production.  The consumables which might allow faster research progress are very rare.  

The attacks meant I had to develop military forces when I would rather have been improving basic resources and building.  This is a personal preference for peaceful or diplomatic lifestyle rather than war.

I have just been invited to an alliance so perhaps I will now find the game a little more 'civilised'  ;)

I disagree with the assumption that 'peaceful' players have enough protection already.  Recently I know of a whole string of players who have abandoned the game feeling that in its current state they are unable to play as they wish.

Specific example: Astrophel was set up as a test case.  She did everything you're supposed to do to defend yourself, and still got wiped out.

OK.  There has been one recent situation where the proposed protection wouldn't help much.  A player in the west of Jonberg just out of the initial week was under pressure from a more advanced neighbour, and got some help from another neighbour (both neighbours were in classical).  The next thing that happened was that the first neighbour called in a more advanced ally who sent a series of attacks with medieval siege equipment.

These attacks were coming in from the other side of the continent so were taking several hours to arrive, but each attack was enough to destroy the newbie's defences and do severe damage to his other buildings.

A 12-hour truce after each attack would have made little difference to this.